This episode features Columbia University’s Professor Jack Snyder, Robert and Renée Belfer Professor of International Relations in the Department of Political Science and the Saltzman Institute of War and Peace Studies. The discussion centers on his new book: Human Rights for Pragmatists: Social Power in Modern Times (Princeton University Press, 2022). Professor Snyder examines the historical development of rights-based societies and contemporary challenges facing rights advocates. He tells us, “Politics and Power Lead, Rights Follow,” asserting that the realization of rights has been grounded in the interest of the dominant political coalition empowered by modernization. Activist approaches grounded in legalism, moralism, and universalism, as opposed to power, self-interest, and bargaining, he contends, hinder the effective defense of human rights and potential advance. The conversation covers a range of topics spanning the relationship between rights and economic development; China’s illiberal model and the middle-income trap; free speech, social media, and democracy in the United States; and populism, neoliberalism, and socioeconomic inequality.